Interview with Rick White

Ed Stetzer interviewed Rick White yesterday about how churches can engage in ministry in Poland. Part of our mission on this discovery trip is to seek to connect new churches with international mission opportunities.

Krakow – Day 4, the meeting, Hungary part 2

Ron Brown and his family have lived in Hungary for 14 years. He studied and learned Hungarian history and culture during the first five years. He initially began doing student work but discovered that Campus Crusade was already doing great stuff in Segud. He then relocated to western Hungary – as close as you can get to Austria without hearing the Von Tropp family.

He began teaching an English class in the university, and at times he was able to share a Christian worldview that caught the attention of collegians. He said that his family kept looking for “glorious failures” so that once they’d had one, they would know what NOT to do the next time. 

He is now the Cluster Strategist for Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic and Slovakia. Part of the difficulty that he observes in ministering here is that even talking about religious matters brings a disconnect. Europeans have such a historic connection and have heard so much, yet there is no personal element, no identification with faith itself. Religion is seen as this “thing.” It’s as if they’ve received a vaccination against Christianity. When they encounter authentic Christianity, they genuinely have no filter for what is being presented and modeled for them.

“The best thing you can do is simply get a real conversation started,” Brown said. He said that you must get past the walls that are still up. However, once you get to a level of conversational intimacy, you’ll be on fertile ground to present the love of Christ and your own beliefs. Hungarians are very resistant to discussing personal matters until they know that they can trust you. They assume that if you’re telling them something important, you want something from them.

The distrust is so high in the Czech Republic, Hungary, and Poland as a result of being considered the stepchildren of Europe and years of abuse and warfare. They describe themselves as contortionists in a circus. Even when trying to join the EU, they had to jump through all kinds of hoops to be considered. Even then, the EU calls them “Eastern” Europe, not Western Europe. So ministry and relationship-building must be intensively incarnational.

Trey Shaw chimed in and said, “In these countries, man, microphone and pedestal equals manipulation.” They want to see presence, someone who will be “around” – not someone who wants to preach at them. The greatest gift to Europeans is a consistent partnership. Don’t go one place one year and another the next. Keep coming and investing in one spot. They perpetuates the relationships.

In addition, many relationships have been kindled by visiting mission teams only to be squandered when American pastors or college students either don’t respond to emails or eventually quit responding. Europeans take relationships very seriously and view Americans as shallow in their relationships. 

One issue is that once an incarnational relationship is established, they have a tendency to “suck the life out of you.” They’re not used to getting healthy attention or relationships, and so once they begin to get that, it’s fuel for a fire that has almost gone out. Missionaries and short-term workers must be sensitive to the fact that once the masks come off, you’ll find a starving person underneath that can’t get enough of real love and joy and hope that they find in you and your family. Boundaries and open communication must be established in order to help them understand that you love them deeply – and you are still hoping to reach other people for Christ as well.

As others chimed in to help us understand the depth of religiosity in Hungary and Europe, Trey mentioned that the Hungarian translation of the Bible is older than the King James, and that is something they pride themselves on. Yet, less than 1% have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. 60% would say that they are Christian – Catholic, Lutheran, or Reformed. But for many, this “Christianity” is as loose as a family connection (my grandmother is a Catholic).

There was a time when the Holy Spirit was working in this area heavily. There were six mission sending agencies in Budapest in the 1800s. So there is a deep history of God working in this area, but over the years, the churches have lost the effectiveness, vibrancy and place in their communities and hearts of the people. Now what passes for Christianity is not about a relationship with Jesus Christ through faith and love but about religion, power, control and status. Forty years of Communism in Hungary “decimated” Christianity here. During the oppressive reign, believers were pressured into “walking the line.” It was fine for them to continue meeting as long as evangelism and proselyting didn’t take place. Those leaders and pastors that did evangelize were arrested and removed from leadership.

Observation:

The condition of the church in Hungary is eerily similar to that of the U.S. I commented in the meeting that in the U.S., there is enormous pressure by society for Christians to keep what they believe to themselves. And many in our churches live that way without understanding how they have been forced into ghost living. For believers who know the Messiah, the Hope of all Nations to keep that to themselves is not a life of vitality but a shadow of reality – a ghost living.

Krakow Day 4 – the meeting, Hungary vision

It’s 9:00 a.m., and we’re off and running – or up and sitting. Packed into a 3-room hostel are six different strategy and mission leaders for Eastern Europe. They’ve converged him this morning from the Czech Republic, Hungary, and Poland to share with our team about their hope and heart for the people of Eastern Europe to enter into a lifelong relationship with the Messiah.

It’s also an opportunity for these mission leaders to connect one-on-one with church leaders from the States who “get it” and are eager to mobilize a new generation of go-ers. Our team comprises churches and is connected to others who recognize that its not just up to “missionaries” to extend the glory of God in the nations but that every member, every church has been commissioned by Christ to bring people into the presence of God through a relationship with Christ.

The retiree, the college student, the career worker, the young family, the stay-at-home mom… there’s a place for every one of us in this glorious adventure of making the Lord of Creation known to His world.

Hungary

Trey Shaw is in Budapest, Hungary, a city of about 2 million people which represents about 20% of the rest of the country. What goes on in Budapest dramatically affects the rest of the country. He and his family have been there for almost three years. He was an English teacher with another organization before he embraced the call of God to live overseas.

Their team in Budapest consists of a journeygirl, a career missionary and his family. Thirty years ago, the Communist Party built the largest single area of single bloc housing – high rises, cinderblock – in Hungary. In a mile and a half, there are 65,000 people that range from blue-collar to middle class and a few upper-middle class.

There are only two evangelical churches in the area of Budapest he serves where there are approximately 65,000 people. Trey comments that the Protestant Reformation never really made it across the Danube River. In the past few years, he says, there were churches that had unbelieving pastors who have vigorously opposed the movement of revival and renewal. Some of those who left these churches turned to churches in the States for direction and leadership as they sought to create a church that would be faithful to Christ and His Word. There is a “megachurch” now in Budapest that is associated with Calvary Chapel.

“It’s not that Christians are ridiculed, but it’s almost… what’s the point?” Trey said. Hungarians are very intelligent people. They are thinkers and a 17 year-old recently told Trey, “You are a Christian?! I thought you were smarter than that.”

Trey shared that Hungarians need a “place of balance” – somewhere to go back to in which they can process. Inviting Hungarians to a new small group or a church service has not connected with them. Trey is now working with an existing church, because it is so crucial to work out of a point of connection. Simply being an isolated missionary will not leave a lasting legacy or healthy believers should the missionary leave.

“Living a life of sacrifice” is necessary to connect to and establish a relationship with these “walking dead people.” He described that underneath the intellectualism is a hopelessness – an attitude of “you only go around once.” The preponderance of litter and graffiti on ageless buildings is a sign that Hungarians simply view life as disposable. So his team has done service projects, beautification projects to communicate lives of service and sacrifice. As he communicates his passion to penetrate and connect with the hearts of Hungarians, he breaks up. As the tears rolls, he says that what he needs are “coworkers” – folks who “get it.”

There are three people groups – the arts community. He thinks a photographer, a painter, a designer would be able to be a candle in this people group in Budapest. Media relates well with this artistic community. A church could sponsor the worker, or they could apply through the IMB. By the time a person applies to the time they make it on the field is three years. He says they need people yesterday. While he understands the length of the process, it may be a prohibitive barrier.

The business community is another people group. Trey described that a strategic worker that has a business background, a couple that knows how to run a business and can help consult with others in Budapest who have their own businesses could make a huge impact. In Budapest, business and success is idolized.

Rick White chimed in and shared about a book called The World Is Curved in which the premise is that when the entrepreneurial spirit and business know-how is uplifted and encouraged, it does more to help a culture, a society than does charitable giving. This concept also undergirds the importance of marketplace missions.

Another great people group need in Hungary is college students. There are more than 100,000 collegians who desperately need a Christian witness. The right guy/girl or couple could be used by God to reach untold students and help create a movement in Budapest.

Trey described the importance of digging deep, embracing the culture and laying down your life. After three years in Budapest, he took a three month leave to visit the States. When he returned, folks said in surprise, “You’re back.” There is a perception that missionaries only live in Hungary to have the lifestyle that they couldn’t have in the States.

Observations: Churches are going to be the future of missions, not the IMB. However, most churches don’t have the connectional resources to be able to support a missionary or many on the field. The need to rethink and create new strategies with visionary churches is extremely crucial.

Again, anyone can be used by God to brings others closer to Jesus Christ. We need groundbreakers and groundskeepers. We need college students and business people. Every single person can be used by God to communicate and incarnate the Gospel to a people apart from Him. Yes, that can be done where you already live; however, where is the greatest need? Are there other Gospel-preaching, Christ-exalting churches in your area which you can entrust the people of your community to? Perhaps God is calling you to be involved in His world.

Another thought is just the little-mindedness that American believers have. They are more consumed with the NEXT event, pouring money into promotional boxes for events, t-shirts, CDs, etc. Yet, God created the world for our enjoyment and His praise. In Matthew 28.18, Jesus said He has been given all authority in heaven and earth. It is all HIS. You can be just “at home” in Budapest as (in my case) Monticello. You can worship, exalt, serve, discover the beauty and all-sufficiency of God in Poland because Jesus is here. Wherever you go, there He is. He is Lord.

It is an exciting day for the missional person, family and church. A revolution is afoot, and it’s more than tea being thrown in a harbor. For the U.S., the rally cry was “no taxation without representation.” For the Christ follower, we must see that the peoples of the world are crying “no salvation without representation.” We must re-present for them the life of Christ. We must live it in front of them. God has given us the ministry of reconciliation!

Krakow Day 3

It’s a visual paradox to step off an electric tram onto a cobblestone street in the shadow of a 1000 year-old castle. It’s even a great historic transport to speak with college students in one of the oldest universities in Europe who carry cell phones and ask about the U.S. bank bailout. Across the street is St. Peter’s and St. Paul’s churches – the former was begun in 1597.

The day in Krakow registered a cool 41 degrees when Scott Wood and I woke. He’s on the media team from the IMB here in Krakow to put together video to help encourage other churches and pastors to get involved in the mission of God in Poland. We were under the impression – falsely – that the other members of our team were going to rise early and go visit the Jewish section of Krakow, including Schindler’s factory. Didn’t happen.

We ate a breakfast of corn flakes (very small and flakey) and had milk out of a box, and into my second cup of instant coffee, I remarked, “I don’t think they’re getting up.” Sure enough, the Stetzers and the guys from City View slept in. Dangit. But that gave us a restful morning – our first moments of non-scheduled activity since we arrived. 

Just before lunch, we took the tram to Jagiellonski University – the second oldest university in Europe. It was established in 1364. Krakow was the capital of Poland then. The four of us – Rick, Jeremy, Ed, and myself were crammed into a smallish room with the media team (Scott and Natalie) and a member of the Krakow team – Sarah. 

For the next four hours, we engaged first year college English students (most had 8 years of English) in conversational English about cultural topics. They were initially bashful but warmed up quickly. It was a powerful example of how someone who is willing can be used by the Lord to build relationships that will be able to followed up by Team Krakow.

Several asked me about the current election in the U.S. Every student I talked to said they wanted John McCain to win. One referred to Barack Obama as a “popstar” and referenced an election in Poland in which a younger politician promised much but delivered little. 

Upon exiting, the media team set up cameras to do a quick interview in the street outside the university. Ed led the interview and asked about how a church formerly “disconnected” has been able to discover ways of embracing international mission strategy. 

We stepped inside both churches across from the university. They were majestic, ornate, shrouded in mystery. Like many European churches, it had a crypt below the nave that was open to view. The mausoleums of former bishops with simple framed papers – in English and Polish – listed their impact on the community.

With Poland being 90% Catholic, it doesn’t mean that only 10% of the population needs to be reached. Far from it. The deadness of Catholicism can be compared to the deadness of religion in the American South. Imagine a people who embrace religion and its trappings, programs and attendance at religious events. It has nothing to do with an intimate love relationship with Jesus Christ that seeks the purposes of the Father in the world.

The evening culminated in a feast of roast, potatoes, green beans, coffee and pound cake at Mark and Suzie Edworthy’s apartment. They were gracious hosts, and we laughed and carried on for several hours as Ed and I sought to create Twitter converts. Of course, most of the more talented and good looking ministers and missionaries in the room were also Mac users.

One of the most humbling moments of the day was the blessing and privilege of welcoming a new family to Poland. Their plane had just arrived this evening, and they will be spending the next two years here in Krakow learning the language before they’re assigned to another city in Poland. Team Krakow was all there to welcome them to their new apartment.

Bleary-eyed and looking a little stunned, they were prayed over by the missions team and proudly welcomed to the beginning of a new faith journey. It was a high and holy moment for me to witness those who have laid down their lives to leave home, family and country welcome others into a fellowship of disciplemakers. As we bowed to pray, I wondered how many families and friends in my life would be experiencing similar moments in the years to come.

Krakow Day 2

Another beautiful day in Krakow! I preached at Second Baptist Church – a contemporary body – this a.m. about the joy of knowing Christ from Matthew 13.44 and the magnificence of being a kingdom citizen. At least, I tried to. It’s a little difficult and distracting at times to preach with an interpreter, especially one that is a literalist. I’m pretty animated when I preach, so I had to tone it down a lot and watch my idioms. Another of the church planters on the trip with me – Rick White from City View Church in Keller- preached at First Baptist.

However, it was a incredible day worshiping with Polish believers. Several of the choruses we sang this morning were ones that we sing at Journey (Mighty to Save, Open the Eyes of My Heart), so it was a powerful experience to sing them in English while the rest of the church sang them in Polish. 

We ate lunch with members from the Krakow team and had a great visit learning about strategy and mission. I am really excited about the opportunities for short term mission encounters with them in the future. There are two couples here in the ISC program which is a 2-year commitment. The media team that is here filming and taking pictures has a 25 year-old who is finishing up her second year in the Journeyman program, and the rest of career missionaries.

A great lunch of Polish cuisine – one plate was said to have tasted just like a “sloppy Joe” without the bun. I had a kind of chicken fried steak with rich red sauce all over it. Very good. 

After lunch, we visited the Wawel Castle (pronounced Vavel) which is almost 1000 years old. That’s right! 1000. There are several good reference sites, but we were completely stunned by its stately beauty and magnificence. One of the missionary couple’s parents visited it with us, and they are on a month-long tour of Europe. Having just come from St. Petersburg, the father said that Wawel couldn’t compare to some of the architecture he’d seen there. I was a little shocked by that, considering how open-mouthed I was over Wawel. It ain’t like nothing back home, ya’ll. More info about Wawel here, here, and here.

Tonight, we attended Compass International Christian Fellowship – an English-speaking service designed to reach out to internationals located here in Krakow. Ed Stetzer preached on the kingdom of God being expressed in the creation of the church in Matthew 16. They had several first-time guests this evening, including several college students with Asian backgrounds. It was exciting to hear their vision for this church plant and ministry. One couple who came this evening are from Texas and are nominal Roman Catholics, but they wanted desperately to find an English-speaking fellowship in the city. They have been coming faithfully after discovering Compass and are growing quickly in their interest in a personal relationship with Christ.

Observations:

• It’s been more than six years since I was on an international mission experience. I cannot help but offer myself and my family anew to whatever the Lord has in store – whether going overseas or helping mobilize others to go.
• The quality, devotion and humility of the strategic workers here in Poland is deeply encouraging. They have welcomed us with open arms and are earnestly seeking to help communicate practical ways for churches in the states that are creative and missional to be involved.
• Short-term teams and missionaries are an extremely practical way to help them build new relationships with Poles. This past year, a team of 20 students from Louisiana Tech’s BCM stayed for three weeks, and the amount of people they met and helped discover has enabled Team Krakow to have many long-lasting relationships that will produce spiritual fruit.
• Anyone can be a part of the harvest process. From photographers to writers to athletes to coaches to students to couples with many kids to couples with no kids to… well, you get the picture. In a city of a million, the evangelical witness is astonishingly low. 250,000 of those (by some estimates) are college students. It is a huge encouragement to realize that God can and will use anyone who surrenders their life to making Him known around the world.

Afew of us are talking about going to see the Schindler’s factory tomorrow. If you’ve seen Schindler’s List, it was filmed here in Krakow, and the factory that he owned is still here. 90 years ago, Krakow was the first city in Poland to regain its independence. Because it was used by the Germans as a base, it was largely preserved from the massive destruction that similar sized cities (Warsaw was 90% destroyed) faced. However, its citizens paid a heavy toll.

It’s humbling to be walking streets and viewing scenes that have played such a major role in world history of the past 100 – no, 1000! – years.

Krakow Day 1

After a 9 hour flight from Atlanta to Prague, Czech Republic and another hour from there, we arrived in Krakow, Poland at 12:30 p.m. local time. It’s 7 hours ahead of CST in the States. We’ve been orientated tonight, and it’s amazing to see the network of sharp folks that God has led to Poland to minister.

Poland is 90% Catholic, but conservative estimates say that less than 5% of the population are devoted followers of Jesus Christ. Of the SBC leader-visionaries here, there is a strategy leader of Central and Eastern Europe, a Regional Leader that travels between Prague and Krakow, a journeyman (recent college graduate who is on a two-year mission here) and several families who are either career missionaires or ISC (International Service Corps). 

They are actively engaged in several ministries seeking to impact the local culture and minister to Poles. Those ministries include childrens ministry, coffee houses, work with orphanages (the interim regional leader has adopted two Polish children), sports ministry (the IRL also helps coach the professional football team – the Krakow Tigers), and church planting.

There are two members of an International Mission Board media team here with our team this week to film, interview and follow us around to hopefully produce a resource that is going to help connect other church planters and innovative churches to the ongoing work here. That is also our team’s mission – to find ways to connect our churches and our people to the work that Christ is doing in Poland.

One stunning fact I learned in researching the country: Poland lost 6 million of its citizens – the most of any country – during World War II. It also had the fourth largest fighting force against Nazi Germany – behind Russia, the U.S., and Britain.

Poland bound

I fly out tomorrow for an 8-day Discovery Trip with other church planters from around the U.S. to Krakow, Poland. I really deliberated on this trip because our church has been supporting and encouraging a pastor in India, and I would like to make a trip there as soon as funds are available. When the Arkansas Baptist State Convention offered to scholarship this trip through their missions team, I realized that it was a unique and special opportunity. So off I go – giddy and grateful for the joy of being part of an expansive vision for missions.

I’m excited that the trip has been coordinated by Ed Stetzer, and I’m looking forward to getting to know him and hearing his thoughts on global/glocal church planting. That’s the purpose of this trip, really – to connect church planters in the U.S. with missionaries and church planters in Eastern Europe. We hope that these connections will produce some longterm partnerships and opportunities to continue sending folks from our area to Poland to minister, assist and help the work going on there.

I’ll be blogging daily from Poland, so stay tuned!