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	<title>Comments on: The need for church planting</title>
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	<link>http://www.journeyguy.com/the-need-for-church-planting/</link>
	<description>Life, adventure and faith in southwest Virginia</description>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyguy.com/the-need-for-church-planting/comment-page-1/#comment-129312</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 14:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.journeyguy.com/archives/1297#comment-129312</guid>
		<description>@Kimberly: Thanks so much for your kind comments. I looked at both sites - excellent! So glad to hear that you guys are doing kingdom work that spans generations here in Arkansas! We desperately need more and more churches that be &quot;underground,&quot; missional and focused on honoring Christ&#039;s commission to us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Kimberly: Thanks so much for your kind comments. I looked at both sites &#8211; excellent! So glad to hear that you guys are doing kingdom work that spans generations here in Arkansas! We desperately need more and more churches that be &#8220;underground,&#8221; missional and focused on honoring Christ&#8217;s commission to us.</p>
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		<title>By: Kimberly Wagner</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyguy.com/the-need-for-church-planting/comment-page-1/#comment-129140</link>
		<dc:creator>Kimberly Wagner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 03:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.journeyguy.com/archives/1297#comment-129140</guid>
		<description>Jeff,

I was doing some research for a conference message I&#039;m preparing &amp; stumbled across your website. I am so glad I found it! Sounds like you have a lot in common with both me &amp; my husband. I was surprised to learn you&#039;re not too far down the road from us. We&#039;re located in Hot Springs. If you ever get a week-end off, come check out our church: Dayspring. oh, you won&#039;t find us in the yellow pages, we&#039;re sort of underground :-) but people keep coming to Christ, even without the &quot;fringe benefits&quot; of a mega church :-)

My husband has been in ministry for more than 30 years (surrendered to preach when he was 13)and most of that time was a full time pastor. Our views on the church have drastically changed through the years. I read some of what your views on the church from an earlier post, then I came to check out your home page - but you probably know all that!

I look forward to coming back &amp; reading more of what you have to say about blogging. I&#039;m a staff blogger for Revive Our Hearts ministries. You can check out our websites at: reviveourhearts.com &amp; truewoman.com

(If you&#039;re married, have your wife check us out) 

Glad I found your site,
keep pointing people to Jesus &amp; keep living for God&#039;s glory!
Numbers 14:21</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff,</p>
<p>I was doing some research for a conference message I&#8217;m preparing &amp; stumbled across your website. I am so glad I found it! Sounds like you have a lot in common with both me &amp; my husband. I was surprised to learn you&#8217;re not too far down the road from us. We&#8217;re located in Hot Springs. If you ever get a week-end off, come check out our church: Dayspring. oh, you won&#8217;t find us in the yellow pages, we&#8217;re sort of underground :-) but people keep coming to Christ, even without the &#8220;fringe benefits&#8221; of a mega church :-)</p>
<p>My husband has been in ministry for more than 30 years (surrendered to preach when he was 13)and most of that time was a full time pastor. Our views on the church have drastically changed through the years. I read some of what your views on the church from an earlier post, then I came to check out your home page &#8211; but you probably know all that!</p>
<p>I look forward to coming back &amp; reading more of what you have to say about blogging. I&#8217;m a staff blogger for Revive Our Hearts ministries. You can check out our websites at: reviveourhearts.com &amp; truewoman.com</p>
<p>(If you&#8217;re married, have your wife check us out) </p>
<p>Glad I found your site,<br />
keep pointing people to Jesus &amp; keep living for God&#8217;s glory!<br />
Numbers 14:21</p>
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		<title>By: it&#8217;s not mayberry &#171; wogblog</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyguy.com/the-need-for-church-planting/comment-page-1/#comment-80671</link>
		<dc:creator>it&#8217;s not mayberry &#171; wogblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 10:13:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.journeyguy.com/archives/1297#comment-80671</guid>
		<description>[...] Why am I blathering on about this? Rural America needs new churches too! In spite of megachurches, no county in America has a greater church population than it did 10 years ago. In a message brought by John Piper in November of 2007 &#8230; he brought out 8 observations about church planting. I won&#8217;t list them all here &#8230; but here is a nice recap. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Why am I blathering on about this? Rural America needs new churches too! In spite of megachurches, no county in America has a greater church population than it did 10 years ago. In a message brought by John Piper in November of 2007 &#8230; he brought out 8 observations about church planting. I won&#8217;t list them all here &#8230; but here is a nice recap. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Veritas Community Church Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Who’s Afraid of the Big Bad Church Plant?</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyguy.com/the-need-for-church-planting/comment-page-1/#comment-34889</link>
		<dc:creator>Veritas Community Church Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Who’s Afraid of the Big Bad Church Plant?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:46:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.journeyguy.com/archives/1297#comment-34889</guid>
		<description>[...] In a recent sermon (11/11/07), John Piper of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Minneapolis made eight observations about church planting, and they have been summarized here: LINK [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In a recent sermon (11/11/07), John Piper of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Minneapolis made eight observations about church planting, and they have been summarized here: LINK [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyguy.com/the-need-for-church-planting/comment-page-1/#comment-22647</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.journeyguy.com/archives/1297#comment-22647</guid>
		<description>DB, it&#039;s just a symptom of being in the Bible Belt. If you don&#039;t have Sunday School, they look at you funny. If you don&#039;t meet at 9:45, 11:00, 6:00 on Sundays and 6:00 on Wednesdays, then your doctrine must be off. If you don&#039;t have deacons, a personnel committee and pews, then you are not a real church...

Any lover of scripture will see that the traditional church today in America has little to no resemblance to the forms and structures present in the New Testament church. That&#039;s no bad or horrible; it&#039;s just unfortunate that traditional church-attenders in the South won&#039;t extend the same grace to other structures and forms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DB, it&#8217;s just a symptom of being in the Bible Belt. If you don&#8217;t have Sunday School, they look at you funny. If you don&#8217;t meet at 9:45, 11:00, 6:00 on Sundays and 6:00 on Wednesdays, then your doctrine must be off. If you don&#8217;t have deacons, a personnel committee and pews, then you are not a real church&#8230;</p>
<p>Any lover of scripture will see that the traditional church today in America has little to no resemblance to the forms and structures present in the New Testament church. That&#8217;s no bad or horrible; it&#8217;s just unfortunate that traditional church-attenders in the South won&#8217;t extend the same grace to other structures and forms.</p>
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		<title>By: DB</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyguy.com/the-need-for-church-planting/comment-page-1/#comment-22630</link>
		<dc:creator>DB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.journeyguy.com/archives/1297#comment-22630</guid>
		<description>Who is cheeky enough to refer to your church as a cult? Do they actually know the characteristics of a cult, or is it just a convenient epithet?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who is cheeky enough to refer to your church as a cult? Do they actually know the characteristics of a cult, or is it just a convenient epithet?</p>
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		<title>By: Elton</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyguy.com/the-need-for-church-planting/comment-page-1/#comment-22436</link>
		<dc:creator>Elton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 04:43:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.journeyguy.com/archives/1297#comment-22436</guid>
		<description>We got the &quot;cult&quot; tag when we were starting our church in Croatia.  If you don&#039;t fit into people&#039;s pre-conceived ideas of what church is, you must be a cult.  Instead of telling students I was a &quot;campus minister&quot;, I could have just easily told them I was alien from the planet Zarkon.  It would have had the same effect.  If people don&#039;t have a cultural context for what you&#039;re doing, it seems weird.  AND, if it seems weird and it has anything to do with religion it must be a cult.

&lt;em&gt;Elton&#039;s last blog post..&lt;/em&gt;&lt;a href=&#039;http://blog.conrady.org/2007/11/25/another-hillbilly-president/&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Another Hillbilly President&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We got the &#8220;cult&#8221; tag when we were starting our church in Croatia.  If you don&#8217;t fit into people&#8217;s pre-conceived ideas of what church is, you must be a cult.  Instead of telling students I was a &#8220;campus minister&#8221;, I could have just easily told them I was alien from the planet Zarkon.  It would have had the same effect.  If people don&#8217;t have a cultural context for what you&#8217;re doing, it seems weird.  AND, if it seems weird and it has anything to do with religion it must be a cult.</p>
<p><em>Elton&#8217;s last blog post..</em><a href='http://blog.conrady.org/2007/11/25/another-hillbilly-president/' rel="nofollow">Another Hillbilly President</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mandy</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyguy.com/the-need-for-church-planting/comment-page-1/#comment-22249</link>
		<dc:creator>Mandy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 21:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.journeyguy.com/archives/1297#comment-22249</guid>
		<description>wow. I had no idea we had so many churches in Monticello! I have to say it actually made me quite sad... how can it be that I so often run into totally ungodly people when we have SO MANY CHURCHES in our little city? Oh wait, that&#039;s right, because too many people sit on a pew each Sunday and then leave God right there when they walk out... okay, question answered. Not that I&#039;m perfect (I mean, I&#039;m close... but not quite.. ;) ) but I must say that there&#039;s a problem somewhere. Is it the church leaders? Is it that that church just happened to get &quot;unlucky&quot; in its membership roll with people that don&#039;t really want to know Christ? Both? 

I must say that twice I&#039;ve been asked, &quot;You&#039;re going to Journey? The cult church?&quot; In a joking way... and I actually mentioned this at our last Bible Study session. I think people think this way b/c, in general, there is something different about the people that attend Journey. That&#039;s what finally drew us there after 3 years of refusing to visit because it was just &quot;too different.&quot; Wow, different is what is needed, in my opinion! I&#039;ve had a major soul shake up since that first visit, that is only strengthened by small groups. I really wish more churches operated this way. I agree that with small groups and worshipping in each other&#039;s homes, it&#039;s much more like what would have gone on in biblical times. And I like it!

&lt;em&gt;Mandy&#039;s last blog post..&lt;/em&gt;&lt;a href=&#039;http://peaceandcraziness.blogspot.com/2007/11/thank-you.html&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Thank you!&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow. I had no idea we had so many churches in Monticello! I have to say it actually made me quite sad&#8230; how can it be that I so often run into totally ungodly people when we have SO MANY CHURCHES in our little city? Oh wait, that&#8217;s right, because too many people sit on a pew each Sunday and then leave God right there when they walk out&#8230; okay, question answered. Not that I&#8217;m perfect (I mean, I&#8217;m close&#8230; but not quite.. ;) ) but I must say that there&#8217;s a problem somewhere. Is it the church leaders? Is it that that church just happened to get &#8220;unlucky&#8221; in its membership roll with people that don&#8217;t really want to know Christ? Both? </p>
<p>I must say that twice I&#8217;ve been asked, &#8220;You&#8217;re going to Journey? The cult church?&#8221; In a joking way&#8230; and I actually mentioned this at our last Bible Study session. I think people think this way b/c, in general, there is something different about the people that attend Journey. That&#8217;s what finally drew us there after 3 years of refusing to visit because it was just &#8220;too different.&#8221; Wow, different is what is needed, in my opinion! I&#8217;ve had a major soul shake up since that first visit, that is only strengthened by small groups. I really wish more churches operated this way. I agree that with small groups and worshipping in each other&#8217;s homes, it&#8217;s much more like what would have gone on in biblical times. And I like it!</p>
<p><em>Mandy&#8217;s last blog post..</em><a href='http://peaceandcraziness.blogspot.com/2007/11/thank-you.html' rel="nofollow">Thank you!</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyguy.com/the-need-for-church-planting/comment-page-1/#comment-22235</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 17:51:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.journeyguy.com/archives/1297#comment-22235</guid>
		<description>Here tis:
&lt;object width=&quot;425&quot; height=&quot;350&quot;&gt; &lt;param name=&quot;movie&quot; value=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/v/YTc1apjvEXw&quot;&gt; &lt;/param&gt; &lt;embed src=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/v/YTc1apjvEXw&quot; type=&quot;application/x-shockwave-flash&quot; width=&quot;425&quot; height=&quot;350&quot;&gt; &lt;/embed&gt; &lt;/object&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here tis:<br />
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YTc1apjvEXw"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YTc1apjvEXw" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object></p>
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		<title>By: dean</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyguy.com/the-need-for-church-planting/comment-page-1/#comment-22230</link>
		<dc:creator>dean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 16:47:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.journeyguy.com/archives/1297#comment-22230</guid>
		<description>Jeff...

As you probably know, I&#039;ve had a very keen interest in the house church movement, which I&#039;ve come to believe best mirrors what the early church looked like, and also offers the best opportunity for low administrative costs, allowing for more resources to be dedicated to ministry in the community.  I&#039;m with you on that whole thing about church starts discouraging bi-vocational models, which is another area (staff salaries) where I believe church resources get pinched pretty badly, leaving few resources for ministry and missions... especially so for a new church plant.  I was recently made aware, much to my delight, that we actually have a house church starting up here in Monticello.  I hope to be able to check it out at some point as my work schedule allows.  I think it&#039;s exciting!

If a high church-per-1,000 figure would keep churches out of the mind-set that they need to build a monstrous physical plant (and incur a monstrous debt to go along with it), I&#039;m all for it.

Interesting that you mentioned the &quot;unintentional&quot; church starts in the rural south... it&#039;s my understanding that both Immanuel Baptist and Serenity Baptist have recently been referred to as &quot;church plants&quot; of Second Baptist and Immanuel Baptist, respectively (anyone who is not aware should realize that both of these churches were the results of church splits).  I&#039;d be interested in knowing if there are any figures out there that indicate how many new Christian converts are drawn to such church &quot;plants.&quot;

&lt;em&gt;dean&#039;s last blog post..&lt;/em&gt;&lt;a href=&#039;http://deancirelli.com/?p=123&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;don?t buck the huck&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff&#8230;</p>
<p>As you probably know, I&#8217;ve had a very keen interest in the house church movement, which I&#8217;ve come to believe best mirrors what the early church looked like, and also offers the best opportunity for low administrative costs, allowing for more resources to be dedicated to ministry in the community.  I&#8217;m with you on that whole thing about church starts discouraging bi-vocational models, which is another area (staff salaries) where I believe church resources get pinched pretty badly, leaving few resources for ministry and missions&#8230; especially so for a new church plant.  I was recently made aware, much to my delight, that we actually have a house church starting up here in Monticello.  I hope to be able to check it out at some point as my work schedule allows.  I think it&#8217;s exciting!</p>
<p>If a high church-per-1,000 figure would keep churches out of the mind-set that they need to build a monstrous physical plant (and incur a monstrous debt to go along with it), I&#8217;m all for it.</p>
<p>Interesting that you mentioned the &#8220;unintentional&#8221; church starts in the rural south&#8230; it&#8217;s my understanding that both Immanuel Baptist and Serenity Baptist have recently been referred to as &#8220;church plants&#8221; of Second Baptist and Immanuel Baptist, respectively (anyone who is not aware should realize that both of these churches were the results of church splits).  I&#8217;d be interested in knowing if there are any figures out there that indicate how many new Christian converts are drawn to such church &#8220;plants.&#8221;</p>
<p><em>dean&#8217;s last blog post..</em><a href='http://deancirelli.com/?p=123' rel="nofollow">don?t buck the huck</a></p>
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